Everyone who drives a car is quite rightly sure that he knows how to do it. But how rationally do we drive our car? In today's Driving School lesson, we will talk about when to shift gears.
Why was checkpoint invented? The answer to this question can be obtained if you listen to the motor while driving at the same speed, but in different gears. The lower the stage, the higher the speed at which this pace is maintained. That is, at the same speed, each of the gears corresponds to its own engine speed. And vice versa - at the same engine speed, the car gets the opportunity to develop different speeds. The gearbox just allows you to use the engine in the speed range that is most beneficial in terms of its maximum output or economy.
Move on schedule
The "golden mean" of switching should be sought in the rpm range corresponding to the maximum torque and maximum power (see graph). It is the first parameter that determines the intensity of the acceleration of the machine.
Experiments and calculations of designers show that for a passenger car with an eight-valve gasoline engine with a volume of 1.0 - 2.5 liters, acceleration with shifts to a higher gear at speeds close to the maximum torque is optimal - about 3000 - 4000 per minute. At the same time, the accelerator should be pressed about half of its stroke - opening the throttle to a larger angle increases fuel consumption, but saves a minimum of time.
A little more energetic
Fans of a more energetic “drive” (within reason, of course) can move the switching point of the next gear three to four hundred revolutions higher, and push the pedal down to two-thirds of the way.
In a simple and understandable form for every driver, these graphics and calculations can be expressed in terms of the speed of the car, so the instructions for the car usually specify the maximum speed in each gear. For example, in cars with engines of 1.2 - 2.0 liters and a five-speed gearbox during normal driving in first gear, it is not recommended to exceed the speed of 30 - 35 km / h, in the second - 45 - 60 km / h, in the third - 90 - 95 km / h, on the fourth - 110 - 130 km / h. Manufacturers allow a short-term excess of these indicators by 10 - 15 km / h when overtaking or on climbs. This means that the tachometer needle (if it is in the car) can be “driven” into the red zone of the scale for 10-15 seconds.
Uniform movement
Maintaining the optimum engine speed when driving without acceleration and deceleration is determined by the same principles as during acceleration. Excessively low or high speeds are undesirable and even harmful.
Driving at low speeds requires more frequent gear changes, since with the slightest increase in load, you need to move to a lower gear. At the same time, by maintaining higher revs in a lower gear, the driver "saves" one shift and has more power to accelerate.
However, the positive aspects of driving in lower gears at high speed - the ability to switch less often or slightly better dynamics - are offset by excessive fuel consumption and a reduction in the resource of the power unit.
"A special case"
When accelerating on a steep hill, shifting should be done a little later than usual, because while driving with the transmission disengaged (with the clutch depressed), the car will have time to lose more speed than on flat terrain or a gentle slope.
slowdown
When decelerating, competent motorists shift from higher to lower gear in the same rev range (see graph) when the engine is at its most powerful. The main thing is to turn on the lower stage on time, not allowing the crankshaft speed to fall below the limit, beyond which the motor no longer has a reserve of torque for a subsequent increase in speed.
Tachometer to the rescue
For rational driving, it is useful to learn and remember two technical specifications from the operating instructions for your car. Firstly, the engine speed at which maximum torque is achieved, and secondly, the speed at which the engine develops the highest power.
Acceleration will be most vigorous if, with the right gear and accelerator, the revs are kept in close proximity to maximum torque and maximum power.
The maximum possible speed is achieved in the highest engine power mode.
Naturally, you should not drive with your eyes fixed on the tachometer in order to keep the arrow near the jagged numbers. It is enough to get used to the sound of the engine, corresponding to the given speed, and learn how to automatically shift gears exactly at the right moment, fixed by memory.
On cars without a tachometer and with good sound insulation, experienced drivers feel when the car should change gear by the reaction of the car to pressing the gas pedal, by the rise and fall of acceleration.
Misconception #1: "economic"
Some drivers abuse short accelerations - without letting the engine spin up, they immediately move up to the next gear. Someone explains this by the desire to save the engine and gasoline, someone wants silence in the cabin and thus avoids the roar that the engine emits.
Meanwhile, switching up too early during acceleration, when the engine speed has not yet reached the maximum torque, only has a negative effect. The motor wears out more intensively due to low oil pressure and increased loads on the parts of the cylinder-piston group. In addition, with such a ride, fuel consumption increases, since in order to continue acceleration from low revs in each next higher gear, you have to press the gas pedal harder and open the throttle at a larger angle.
It is also unprofitable to delay the acceleration process with a small throttle opening - a third of the pedal travel or less. Any acceleration requires the supply of an increased portion of fuel, so its extension inevitably leads to an increase in fuel consumption. Time, of course, is also not saved.
Less noise
-Limited "agility" of the machine (for low-power models of a small class)
-Increased engine wear
-Excessive fuel consumption
-More frequent switching
Misconception #2: "sporty"
Many drivers suffer from another "ailment" - the habit of "twisting" the motor during acceleration. Like, we drive in a sporty way, and the athletes know how dynamics and speed are achieved.
But in urban conditions, such a manner would be more correctly called nervous. Fuel from such drivers intensively flies "down the pipe", but the main thing is that the goal - driving "in a sporty way" - is still not achieved. Modern motors are very high-speed and differ in the maximum moment shifted to the region of high revolutions. But it makes no sense to “turn” the engine above the highest power speed - there will be an increase in dynamics compared to the optimal mode, but small. In addition, “extra” crankshaft revolutions lead to a reduction in the resource of engine parts and an increase in fuel consumption.
Many novice and sometimes more experienced drivers have not heard of such terms as overgassing and double pedaling. Such driving techniques are useful in modern driving (especially if a manual transmission is in place). Let's take a closer look at these methods.
Peregazovka
Peregazovka - this is when there is an increase in engine speed in neutral. This is the reverse process of downshifting.
It's about increasing the thrust of the engine.
When a quick start or a quick maneuver is made, a re-gassing occurs. As experienced people say, this reduces the inertia of the engine.
When you are in neutral, the main thing here is to pause in time. You need to catch the right clutch moment when starting off.
Transfer technique:
- Slowly decrease speed and start engine braking.
- Depress the clutch and release the gas pedal.
- Turn on neutral.
- The clutch pedal must be fully released.
- Increase engine speed (1 forward).
- We squeeze the clutch.
- Engage first gear.
- Slowly release the friction clutch.
What is the need for regassing (when braking)?
- Enter the turn.
- To prevent sudden movement of the vehicle.
- For smooth braking.
- It is carried out with a sharp maneuver.
- Avoid an emergency.
Usually used when overtaking, on the rise, when entering a sharp turn.
There is another term - high-speed regassing. Most often used in very extreme situations. For example, in snow storms, when the road was sprinkled, very steep slopes, on roads with loose coating;
Double release
A double squeeze is considered:
- Pulled out the clutch.
- Turned on neutral.
- Released the clutch.
- Squeezed it out again.
- And turned on the transmission.
In other words, a double release is a gear change to a higher one by double pressing the clutch.
Double release is needed to facilitate gear shifting.
The method of this squeeze:
- Acceleration in first gear up to 3 thousand rpm.
- Depress the clutch and release the gas.
- We move to the neutral position.
- Let's release the clutch.
- A short pause (at this point, synchronization occurs).
- We squeeze the clutch.
- Turn on transmission.
- We release the friction clutch.
- Press the gas pedal (increase engine speed.
Synchronizer
Synchronizers are an integral part of the gearbox. These are mechanisms. They synchronize the rotational number of the shaft and gears.
In the gearbox there are spectra of the speeds of rotation of the motor and wheels. They have mismatches, and to make the combination, you need a synchronizer.
These techniques can be used in any situation. The main thing is to know their meanings, methods and perform them correctly in an extreme situation.
1q2a 20-05-2013 11:39
The question is, if you switch with peregazovka, clutch or something else deteriorates?
passerby 20-05-2013 11:51
Nothing spoils. Regassing was needed on old gearboxes, such as GAZ-51 trucks. There, it was simply impossible to switch from a higher gear to a lower one - there were no synchronizers, the gears did not engage, a rattle and a possible breakdown of the gearbox. So they did a regassing in order to equalize the speeds of the shafts - first, the clutch was released and the top gear was turned off to neutral, then the engine speed was increased (the gas was jerked) and the gas pedal was thrown - at decreasing engine speeds, the clutch was squeezed out and turned on a lower gear. After some training - it turns out automatically and without cod. This is how I drove a GAZ-51 in the 80s, I had a chance to work on such a car. Now there is no need for regassing - all gearboxes are with synchronizers.
CEMEHbi4 20-05-2013 11:52
nothing spoils, but the meaning, or do you have a box without a synchronizer?
CEMEHbi4 20-05-2013 11:55
Yes, American trucks.
BAU 20-05-2013 11:55
The question is, if you switch with peregazovka, clutch or something else deteriorates?
Another thing is that the regassing should be exactly up to the speed at which the gearbox input shaft is spinning at the moment the clutch is released.
carrier 20-05-2013 12:02
but the meaning
There is a point when you go from the highest to the lowest through two steps, without braking, so as not to break the wheels into the skid.
1q2a 20-05-2013 12:17
Yes, it’s just that when I switch from higher to lower, it’s not always possible to get into the revs, it turns out engine braking and the car twitches, as it were, forward
CEMEHbi4 20-05-2013 12:31
There is a point when you go from the highest to the lowest through two steps, without braking, so as not to break the wheels into the skid.
Chegoyto you wrote something wrong. And here yuz?
CEMEHbi4 20-05-2013 12:36
quote: Originally posted by 1q2a:
carrier 20-05-2013 12:56
quote: Originally posted by CEMEHbi4:
And here yuz?
If, for example, at a speed of under a hundred without regassing, you put in second gear, then the wheels will block for a short time, and the loads on the transmission will be high.
trin 20-05-2013 12:59
quote: Originally posted by carrier:
If, for example, at a speed of under a hundred without regassing, you put in second gear, then the wheels will block for a short time, and the loads on the transmission will be high
So refueling doesn't help. The output still has engine speed and shaft speed in the gearbox. You won't take them anywhere.
1q2a 20-05-2013 13:02
quote: Originally posted by CEMEHbi4:
regassing has nothing to do with it, there is a non-synchronous operation of gas and clutch at the moment the clutch is released.
Yes, I'm not sure, but I seem to try to do everything consistently. Re-acceleration according to the scheme to release the gas and squeeze the clutch, then downshift,
trin 20-05-2013 13:10
quote: Originally posted by 1q2a:
Re-acceleration according to the scheme to release the gas and squeeze the clutch, then downshift,
give gas and release the clutch helps to drive smoothly
peregazirovka is a little different. Depress the clutch, disengage the gear, release the clutch, give gas, depress the clutch, shift into gear.
BAU 20-05-2013 14:40
quote: Originally posted by 1q2a:
Yes, it’s just that when I switch from higher to lower, it’s not always possible to get into the revs, it turns out engine braking and the car twitches, as it were, forward
Those. You don’t know how to get at the moment of gear shifting, but you think that you can handle the gas shift ???
Just learn to drive normally, any instructor teaches this in a week, even a completely air-thinking young lady. In your case, the overdrive is completely useless.
BAU 20-05-2013 14:43
So refueling doesn't help. The output still has engine speed and shaft speed in the gearbox. You won't take them anywhere.
It is precisely in this case that regassing will save. By adding gas, you can spin the crankshaft to the speed of the input shaft of the box and release the clutch without any problems. Naturally, it is necessary to twist to the "correct" revolutions.
BAU 20-05-2013 14:49
quote: Originally posted by trin:
peregazirovka is a little different. Depress the clutch, disengage the gear, release the clutch, give gas, depress the clutch, shift into gear.
This is a double push. Used for ancient trucks from poverty.
Peregazovka is precisely the ability to switch "down" at a speed different from idle to maintain engine braking efficiency and readiness to start effectively adding gas in a turn (it's clear that the brake pedal is held "to the floor" at this moment).
CEMEHbi4 20-05-2013 14:57
quote: Originally posted by carrier:
unname22 20-05-2013 15:03
2. Why throw a clutch?
CEMEHbi4 20-05-2013 15:04
It is precisely in this case that regassing will save. By adding gas, you can spin the crankshaft to the speed of the input shaft of the box and release the clutch without any problems. Naturally, it is necessary to twist to the "correct" revolutions.
it's much easier to release the clutch at the right moment and add gas at the right time.
BAU 20-05-2013 15:06
quote: Originally posted by CEMEHbi4:
it's much easier to release the clutch at the right moment and add gas at the right time.
CEMEHbi4 20-05-2013 15:10
1. In a non-synchronized gearbox
2. If too lazy to squeeze the clutch (obviously not an option T.S.a)
BAU 20-05-2013 15:17
quote: Originally posted by CEMEHbi4:
regassing is effective only in two cases:
1. In a non-synchronized gearbox
2. If too lazy to squeeze the clutch (obviously not an option T.S.a)
By the way, modern robots are able to do regasification. And the vehicle just hasn't learned how to drive yet. He really doesn't need a boost.
carrier 20-05-2013 15:21
quote: Originally posted by CEMEHbi4:Have you tried using the clutch?
Necessarily. Without it, there will be a pipe at all.
quote: Originally posted by unname22:
1. Why the heck on a hundred to cut in second gear, this is probably engine torsion.
2. Why throw a clutch?
It is more likely to be used in sports. Although the skill can be useful during normal driving. The second one was chosen as an example. Although it is quite possible to accelerate to a second car up to 90.
The clutch does not need to be thrown. Together with the release, the engine speed is increased.
trin 20-05-2013 15:26
quote: Originally posted by BAU:
Very often, the “needed” moment is at 5 thousand rpm.
there initially starts from 2000 and 5000 is the average speed. The car is spinning for sure at least up to 6500, or even up to 8000 rpm. And at 5 thousand revolutions without re-gassing, a lowered one is quietly stuck.
CEMEHbi4 20-05-2013 15:27
quote: Originally posted by BAU:
Very often, the “needed” moment is at 5 thousand rpm.
and you might think if at the moment you have the speed and gear on for 4k and you make a gas shift to 7k and release the clutch, you will suddenly get 5k nothing but transmission jerking and you won’t get the same 4k. In order to get 5 thousand. in a lower gear, you need to slow down in the upper gear or slow down and turn on the lower one, and if you have synchronizers in the gearbox, it’s easier to stick the lower gear without drochilov, with the clutch pedal depressed, add gas and release the clutch, which in turn is the concept of proper operation of the gas pedals It has nothing to do with clutch and re-gassing.
CEMEHbi4 20-05-2013 15:31
quote: Originally posted by BAU:
Be sure to tell this to the athletes. People will laugh and relax))).
By the way, modern robots are able to do regasification. And the vehicle just hasn't learned how to drive yet. He really doesn't need a boost.
BAU 20-05-2013 15:31
quote: Originally posted by trin:
there initially starts from 2000 and 5000 is the average speed. The car is spinning for sure at least up to 6500, or even up to 8000 rpm. And at 5 thousand revolutions without re-gassing, a lowered one is quietly stuck.
Why did it happen?
I pressed the clutch and the RPMs immediately dropped to XX. Without regassing, you can’t get out of motion at the peak of the moment. RPMs over 4k after shifting.
Dron+ 20-05-2013 15:31
At nine with dead synchronizers of the second gear, I always did regassing when moving down. Now I do the same, the gears turn on softer. When going up, it didn't fucking give up.
BAU 20-05-2013 15:35
quote: Originally posted by CEMEHbi4:
in sports not (street racing such as the street racer sparzo) use non-synchronized boxes. who are modern robots?
Well, to each his own. There is money for a special box and a team of mechanics - then of course you can. But many people use the usual. It's like saying that any skiing athlete has a team of doctors, masseurs, ski preparers, etc. Yes, at the level of the Olympics it is, but the majority ride "on their own" ((((.
Modern robot? I've heard that the GT-R does its own gas shifting when shifting, its Z300 relative does too. But I didn't ride them myself.
BAU 20-05-2013 15:39
quote: Originally posted by CEMEHbi4:
and you might think if at the moment you have the speed and gear on for 4k and you make a gas shift to 7k and release the clutch, you will suddenly get 5k nothing but transmission jerking and you won’t get the same 4k. In order to get 5 thousand. in a lower gear, you need to slow down in the upper gear or slow down and turn on the lower one, and if you have synchronizers in the gearbox, it’s easier to stick in the lower gear without drochilov, with the clutch pedal depressed, add gas and release the clutch,
At 4 thousand, no one does regassing to 7))). Exactly up to the rpm you need. Synchronizers are not a panacea and synchronize without harm to themselves in a very limited range. At 4 thousand from XX, do not switch without wear. So gas needs to be added.
And jerking in braking is a disaster. Rubber and so on the limit. Rip off and that's it, you have to catch it. So smoothness and delicacy.
trin 20-05-2013 15:43
quote: Originally posted by BAU:
Why did it happen?
Single all the same 900-1000. How else to slow down the engine?
I pressed the clutch and the RPMs immediately dropped to XX. Without regassing, you can’t get out of motion at the peak of the moment. RPMs over 4k after shifting.
So what about 1000 idle? The car runs very unevenly at these speeds. If you have a maximum speed of 6000, then when switching to a lower speed, 5000 is not needed, 2500-3000 is enough for the engine to spin up easily. For braking, you don’t need a maximum speed at all, just kill the engine. And if you need a moment from which you start to turn and this is 5000, then the car turns at 6500-7500, but there it will fail from 1000 revolutions and will only start moving from 2000.
quote: Originally posted by CEMEHbi4:
in sports not (street racing such as the street racer sparzo) use non-synchronized boxes. who are modern robots?
Some sports cars are also made for civilian driving (street racers at least) and they don’t install sequencers for the city, just like a ceramic clutch. In the city it is unrealistic to drive such cars. You yourself drove such boxes in order to declare that all cars come with these boxes.
For whom then were made 5, 6, 7, 8 and other rows (chiseled) and also different pairs. They are used in sports in ordinary boxes.
CEMEHbi4 20-05-2013 15:43
quote: Originally posted by BAU:
Well, to each his own. There is money for a special box and a team of mechanics - then of course you can. But many people use the usual. It's like saying that any skiing athlete has a team of doctors, masseurs, ski preparers, etc. Yes, at the level of the Olympics it is, but the majority ride "on their own" ((((.
Well so also it is not necessary to frighten with neighing sportsmen.
BAU 20-05-2013 15:45
quote: Originally posted by CEMEHbi4:
Well so also it is not necessary to frighten with neighing sportsmen.
Do you only recognize the World Cup and the Olympics as athletes? And the rest - so, loafers?)))
By the way, synchronizationless cam boxes cannot be switched without regassing either. Miracles don't happen.
n1ce 20-05-2013 15:46
quote: Originally posted by carrier:
It is more likely to be used in sports. Although the skill can be useful during normal driving.
At least telemetry says so, there is a huge topic about this driving technique ...
At 130 manual transmission, the second gear locks the rear axle at a speed of 100, emnip))) The destruction of the box does not occur.
But at 335 on the second instead of the fourth, I tore the box ...
CEMEHbi4 20-05-2013 15:47
quote: Originally posted by BAU:
This is the addition of gas with the clutch depressed and there is a regassing))). Another thing is that it is usually performed with the brake also pressed.
At 4 thousand, no one does regassing to 7))). Exactly up to the rpm you need. Synchronizers are not a panacea and synchronize without harm to themselves in a very limited range. At 4 thousand from XX, do not switch without wear. So gas needs to be added.
when the clutch is depressed, this is not pre-gasping, you just spin the flywheel and the box will be disabled for you because the clutch is depressed
1q2a 20-05-2013 15:49
quote: Originally posted by CEMEHbi4:
In order to get 5 thousand. in a lower gear, you need to slow down in the upper gear or slow down and turn on the lower one, and if you have synchronizers in the gearbox, it’s easier to stick the lower gear without drochilov, with the clutch pedal depressed, add gas and release the clutch, which in turn is the concept of proper operation of the gas pedals It has nothing to do with clutch and re-gassing.
Yes, I wanted to say about this that if you do it in this way, then the ride comes out smoother. Not so expressed. My experience is really not great, but on other cars that I had a chance to drive, there was no such jerking when switching, so this question arose.
trin 20-05-2013 15:49
quote: Originally posted by BAU:
This is the addition of gas with the clutch depressed and there is a regassing))).
CEMEHbi4 20-05-2013 15:51
quote: Originally posted by trin:It seems to me that we still have a misunderstanding in terms. What you call overgassing is not overgassing at all, it's just an increase in engine speed.
As for me, this is what regassing is, and this is what double squeeze is:
http://arafanat.ru/ekspluataci...eregazovka.htmlRegassing is revving in neutral to raise the engine speed and synchronize with the speed in the box. This was used before, on cars with a box without synchronizers.
exactly. only the speed synchronization is not of the box and the engine, but of the secondary and intermediate shafts in the gearbox, which is why the gas is done in neutral gear and the clutch pedal is released.
CEMEHbi4 20-05-2013 16:00
double squeeze is also by the way for synchronizing the same shafts only for switching to higher gear and was done in order:
depress clutch, engage neutral, release clutch, depress clutch, engage high release clutch
to switch to a lower one, a double squeeze with regassing was used.
CEMEHbi4 20-05-2013 16:02
quote: Originally posted by fref1:Now it is used on American tractors, where the gears are engaged without clutch release (except for the first and rear).
precisely because they still have boxes without synchronizers. and one more very important point for the successful operation of the squeeze with the gear re-gassing in the gearbox should be STRAIGHT on helical gears, the methods of working with re-gassing are not so effective.
trin 20-05-2013 16:35
and in sequences they just put spurs, unlike civilian boxes. That's why the style is different. Yes, and on a cam box, unlike a conventional gear, you cannot switch through 1.
carrier 20-05-2013 17:22
Pret me from the old Americans just.)))
And how it switches. The song is simple.
BAU 20-05-2013 18:28
quote: Originally posted by CEMEHbi4:
when the clutch is depressed, this is not pre-gas, you just spin the flywheel and the box will be disabled for you because the clutch is depressed
What will the box be disabled from? Both the primary and secondary shafts will spin quite well. What does the primary, because it is not loaded, it will easily spin up from the secondary, the gear will become necessary and all that remains is to release the clutch, bringing the engine to the correct speed.
BAU 20-05-2013 18:31
quote: Originally posted by CEMEHbi4:
precisely because they still have boxes without synchronizers. and one more very important point for the successful operation of the squeeze with the gear re-gassing in the gearbox should be STRAIGHT on helical gears, the methods of working with re-gassing are not so effective.
How does the shape of the teeth affect it?
CEMEHbi4 20-05-2013 18:38
quote: Originally posted by BAU:
What will the box be disabled from? Both the primary and secondary shafts will spin quite well. What does the primary, because it is not loaded, it will easily spin up from the secondary, the gear will become necessary and all that remains is to release the clutch, bringing the engine to the correct speed.
and idiots designers came up with synchronizers ... learn the materiel.
CEMEHbi4 20-05-2013 18:39
quote: Originally posted by BAU:
How does the shape of the teeth affect it?
if it hadn’t affected, straight-toothed gears would not have been put in sports boxes.
BAU 20-05-2013 18:48
quote: Originally posted by CEMEHbi4:
and idiots designers came up with synchronizers ... learn the materiel.
It is the synchronizers that make it possible to compensate for the difference in the speeds of rotation of the shafts.
Returning from cam boxes, ancient trucks and other things to the topic of vehicles (driving a passenger car) - you don’t need to re-gas in the usual mode, just don’t switch down a little longer, the speed of the shafts will decrease and the moment the clutch will be engaged will pass without a jerk.
BAU 20-05-2013 18:51
quote: Originally posted by n1ce:
In normal driving, this skill is 200% useless; moreover, even in sports, it can be harmful to many than smoother release of the clutch, because. Not all pilots have light feet.
At least telemetry says so, there is a huge topic about this driving technique ...
Obviously, in normal driving, there is no point in using this. That's what I'm trying to convey from the beginning.
Sports are more difficult. As usual, it is better to use techniques that you know well than to use badly that you do not know how. Even just with 1 foot to press the gas and brake at the same time and with controlled efforts is difficult. And then the clutch and gearbox work too hard.
It ideally looks like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8By2AEsGAhU
CEMEHbi4 20-05-2013 19:06
quote: Originally posted by BAU:
It is the synchronizers that make it possible to compensate for the difference in the speeds of rotation of the shafts.
Then explain the meaning of peregazovki with the clutch depressed.
BAU 20-05-2013 19:09
quote: Originally posted by CEMEHbi4:
Then explain the meaning of peregazovki with the clutch depressed.
CEMEHbi4 20-05-2013 19:16
Monsieur knows a lot about perversions.
Damien 20-05-2013 19:20
quote: Originally posted by CEMEHbi4:
do you suggest adjusting the engine speed to the speed of the gearbox input shaft with the gear engaged?
What? What?? What??? ipec:
BAU 20-05-2013 19:22
quote: Originally posted by CEMEHbi4:
I think I understand what you mean, do you propose to adjust the engine speed to the speed of the gearbox input shaft with the gear engaged?
Monsieur knows a lot about perversions.
That's exactly what I wrote about in post #5.
Uh-uh, how else will you switch to 5 thousand?
CEMEHbi4 20-05-2013 19:24
quote: Originally posted by Damien:
What? What?? What??? ipec:
I'm in shock.
CEMEHbi4 20-05-2013 19:30
quote: Originally posted by BAU:
In message? 5, I wrote about this.
Uh-uh, how else will you switch to 5 thousand?
well, if you have 12 cylinders and 8 liters of volume per 1000 kg of car weight, then I can understand all these muddy sobs. and for 5 thousand where you need to switch up or down.
trin 20-05-2013 19:34
hm. I do not understand, but what for to switch to the maximum? What does it give? When accelerating, this does nothing, when braking, you will already have an increase in speed due to engine load ... And say 5000 is this maximum speed or is it still average speed on that hypothetical car you are talking about?
trin 20-05-2013 19:36
quote: Originally posted by BAU:
Switch not in the idle area, but stay at the maximum torque / power.
Yes, what kind of idle are we talking about when the gear shifts? I can’t understand in any way ... When shifting gears down, you add at least 1000 revolutions anyway.
BAU 20-05-2013 19:41
quote: Originally posted by CEMEHbi4:
well, if you have 12 cylinders and 8 liters of volume per 1000 kg of car weight, then I can understand all these muddy sobs. and for 5 thousand where you need to switch up or down.
trin 20-05-2013 19:43
quote: Originally posted by CEMEHbi4:
and for 5 thousand where you need to switch up or down.
I can't understand either. On the eight was row 18 and a pair of 3.9. When accelerating, 1-2 are unscrewed to 7500-8000, when switching to 3-4 it’s already 5000 rpm and pulls up to 6800 (maximum torque) -7500 and then you accelerate ... Once I twisted it by 2 at 9000, after switching it was 5600 and only in vain I lost time on the recurve (fractions of a second), the dynamics still only goes from 4500 to 6800, you just twist it up to 7500, so that the engine spins easily from 5000 up. But when you go downhill from 4500 immediately to 5500-6000, the engine twists on braking. Well, where are so many turns?
trin 20-05-2013 19:47
quote: Originally posted by BAU:
And if at 800 kg 200 hp and then after 7 thousand, then you have to keep the speed around 5 even on downshifts.
If you have a maximum speed of 7000 with a little, then in order to get 5000 rpm on a lower one, you need to switch to 3500-4000, what kind of failure are you doing? Is there a power meter for the car to see the curve?
BAU 20-05-2013 19:51
quote: Originally posted by trin:
hm. I do not understand, but what for to switch to the maximum? What does it give? When accelerating, this does nothing, when braking, you will already have an increase in speed due to engine load ... And say 5000 is this maximum speed or is it still average speed on that hypothetical car you are talking about?
This makes it possible to brake, but exit the turn at maximum traction and accelerate vigorously.
5k is the minimum RPM. Pulls after 6200. Maximum - 8500.
carrier 20-05-2013 20:02
quote: Originally posted by BAU:
Obviously, in normal driving, there is no point in using this.
It may come in handy if the clutch barks. But to be honest, switching a synchronized box like this is unrealistic in my opinion. At least I couldn’t do it normally.
BAU 20-05-2013 20:07
quote: Originally posted by trin:
If you have a maximum speed of 7000 with a little, then in order to get 5000 rpm on a lower one, you need to switch to 3500-4000, what kind of failure are you doing? Is there a power meter for the car to see the curve?
Oh sure. While in braking I can fail, the main thing after switching is not to be very deep.
This is not mine, but something similar:
http://www.lotustalk.com/forum...cu-lotus-b-.jpg
[email protected] 20-05-2013 20:07
quote: Originally posted by Passerby:
Now there is no need for regassing - all gearboxes are with synchronizers.
Only now, practice shows that during annealing, synchronizers do not always cope, so regassing has not lost its relevance.
quote: Originally posted by BAU:
This is a double push.
This is the permutation. Just a double squeeze (without regassing) is used when switching "up" - then regassing was not needed on trucks without synchronizers
quote: Originally posted by BAU:
This addition of gas with the clutch depressed is gas re-gassing
They wrote you correctly - learn the mat part
P.S. By the way, you yourself blamed the pipe - and so it is there that the athletes are re-gassing. But I suspect that you didn’t even notice this, because no one drives with their foot for kilometers, the clutch works on the verge of contact between the discs - disengaged the clutch, disengaged the gear, engaged the clutch, over-revved, disengaged the clutch, engaged the gear, engaged the clutch - reads like a long mantra, in fact - fractions of a second for everything
CEMEHbi4 20-05-2013 20:08
quote: Originally posted by BAU:
Vice versa. If the locomotive traction is from 8 liters, then you probably don’t have to bother.
And if at 800 kg 200 hp and then after 7 thousand, then you have to keep the speed around 5 even on downshifts.
well squeezed the clutch poked lower and at the moment of touching the clutch disc and the flywheel threw the gas. What is the problem? this moment T.S. and cannot catch.
BAU 20-05-2013 20:08
quote: Originally posted by carrier:
Me too...
BAU 20-05-2013 20:13
No, it's just revving up the engine bullshit. Peregazovka is used to push the gear, and the garbage you described is for "damping", such as extending the life of the timing belt or avoiding skidding on slippery surfaces as much as possible
They wrote you correctly - learn the mat part
OK)
Then I'll be happy to get acquainted with your version of this action.
[email protected] 20-05-2013 20:16
quote: Originally posted by BAU:
I'll take a look at your version of this action.
In terms of?!
BAU 20-05-2013 20:19
quote: Originally posted by [email protected]:
In terms of?!
How to properly perform a peregazovka? Or at least a link.
BAU 20-05-2013 20:22
quote: Originally posted by [email protected]:
P.S. By the way, you yourself blamed the pipe - and so it is there that the athletes are re-gassing. But I suspect that you didn’t even notice this, because no one drives with their foot for kilometers, the clutch works on the verge of contact between the discs - disengaged the clutch, disengaged the gear, engaged the clutch, re-revved, disengaged the clutch, engaged the gear, engaged the clutch - reads like a long mantra, in fact - fractions of a second for everything
[email protected] 20-05-2013 20:23
quote: Originally posted by BAU:
How to properly perform a peregazovka?
What did I write above?
quote: Originally posted by BAU:
There are 2 clicks on the clutch with the addition of gas in neutral?
Yes
CEMEHbi4 20-05-2013 20:24
quote: Originally posted by carrier:
It may come in handy if the clutch barks. But to be honest, switching a synchronized box like this is unrealistic in my opinion. At least I couldn’t do it normally.
the whole problem is that in the synchronizer box there are hooks on the gear and a sliding clutch with a reverse slope, such as a triangle standing on top and when hooked to each other, they hold each other with these triangles, while turning off the gear without releasing the clutch is possible only in a narrow range, and in asynchronous the box on these parts has a straight tooth and they hold each other only by friction.
BAU 20-05-2013 21:02
quote: Originally posted by [email protected]:
Yes
What's the box? Civil?
trin 20-05-2013 22:11
and how do you fail in braking so much? with such an amplitude of revolutions (from 7000 to 2000-2500), it takes you 4-5 seconds and the car loses speed almost to idle ... With any braking when switching down, you will still go out to 6000 revolutions, not even 5. .. And even on a civilian box (I mean a chisel class), regassing will not help you. On a cam, this happens 2-3 times faster than on a conventional box. Fractions of a second (0.2-0.3 sec). There, the clutch squeezed the gas and released. And on a regular box, you need to run neutral. Therefore, usually in a jerk, the blow goes when switching. Because of this, many people have a problem in 2nd gear in the synchronizer. She, as a minimum, takes everything upon herself. 1 gear is used only to start, then you almost never switch to it, and 3-4 can withstand loads. And all the rings and turns are usually 2-3 gears. From 50 to 130 km per hour.
trin 20-05-2013 22:14
BAU Are you talking about Lotus? the curve on the measurement is good, I didn’t manage to get one, of course, there was a more humpbacked measurement, but they also built the car themselves, all the same, it was worth it to get a 1700 engine from 1300 engine.
BAU 20-05-2013 22:50
quote: Originally posted by trin:
and how do you fail in braking so much? with such an amplitude of revolutions (from 7000 to 2000-2500), it takes you 4-5 seconds and the car loses speed almost to idle ... With any braking when switching down, you will still go out to 6000 revolutions, not even 5. .. And even on a civilian box (I mean a chisel class), regassing will not help you. On a cam, this happens 2-3 times faster than on a conventional box.
The box I have is the most common. Therefore, I will not say anything about the behavior of the cam.
In theory, it is clear that 3 seconds is enough to smoothly go from 4 to 2. But any breakthrough will lead to a breakdown IMHO.
BAU 20-05-2013 22:52
quote: Originally posted by trin:
BAU Are you talking about Lotus? the curve on the measurement is good, I didn’t manage to get one, of course, there was a more humpbacked measurement, but they also built the car themselves, all the same, it was worth it to get a 1700 engine from 1300 engine.
Well, yes. But any 2zz will show this. The curve there is from a phase change at 6200. This is due to the fact that less than 6200 the moment is very different.
trin 20-05-2013 23:22
quote: Originally posted by BAU:
I don't know how to insert telemetry here. So just in words: from 164.9 to 71.7 reset in ~3 seconds.
in theory, during this time you can go through braking and switch not from 4 to 2, but have time to cut in 3rd gear intermediately and brake faster and more smoothly with the engine, then you won’t need to re-gas and braking will be more effective ... And you are trying to increase the speed due to the fact what you do when braking is a very big dip. You just have to work harder with your hand.
And you need to shift the gear at about 4500 rpm. from 4000 to 2500 your engine has practically no effect. And 3rd gear with such braking will slow down very effectively from 6-6.5 thousand to 4 thousand. And you will switch to 2 not after 3 seconds, but after about 2.5 (plus or minus), a gain of 0.5 seconds minimum, no extra squeeze, the right speed for a jerk in a turn, and less chance of hitting a skid. The car will run much smoother.
BAU 20-05-2013 23:32
quote: Originally posted by trin:
in theory, during this time you can go through braking and switch not from 4 to 2, but have time to cut in 3rd gear intermediately and brake faster and more smoothly with the engine, then you won’t need to re-gas and braking will be more effective ... And you are trying to increase the speed due to the fact what you do when braking is a very big dip. You just have to work harder with your hand.
So by the word "smoothly" I meant with intermediate 3. But we have what we have. So far, in my case, there are more losses on too smooth braking IMHO.
PUPPETEER 21-05-2013 08:03
[a]
I read it, I scolded it. All those who do not understand the mechanics on the 130th zil, so that it is loaded. And it’s even better for older models, where for a step-down with a double regassing)))
[email protected] 21-05-2013 19:43
quote: Originally posted by BAU:
What's the box? Civil?
If this is exactly about that video question, then I was not interested, but I think that the most common one, because nsx is serial there
BAU 21-05-2013 22:54
quote: Originally posted by [email protected]:
If this is exactly about that video question, then I was not interested, but I think that the most common one, because nsx is serial there
bcc1357 22-05-2013 12:03
I sometimes do this when I leave the petal on the Moscow Ring Road or some highway in the evening. To accelerate quickly.
I'm driving along the petal in high gear, there is the 4th or 5th. (Flywheel speed is low. Input shaft speed is low.)
- Next, I press the clutch and put it in neutral. I release the clutch. (The flywheel is connected to the input shaft and not connected to the secondary.)
- I gas. (This accelerates the flywheel, and, accordingly, the input shaft.)
I depress the clutch and shift into low gear. (The input shaft is still accelerated, when the gear is engaged, the load on the synchronizer is less. Because it does not need to force the input shaft to be synchronized in lower gear with the secondary one, at a given speed.)
- I gas again and release the clutch. (The flywheel must be accelerated again by this point, because it has already reduced speed.)
Something like this.
In general, these are troubles that are (conditionally) needed only if a heavy clutch disc (keeps torque for a long time), a heavy car, and a powerful engine with a failure at low revs. And so, all this nah is not necessary.
[email protected] 22-05-2013 01:06
quote: Originally posted by BAU:
And why, there you see pressing the gas and at the very moment when, when shifting gears, the box is put in neutral and the clutch is released ????
Don't you see? Well, practice - and you yourself will get it. The speed will surely come gradually
And so, all this nah is not necessary
If you crawl the way you described, then I agree, it's not necessary. And with good annealing, the triple synchronizer does not save
BAU 22-05-2013 01:18
quote: Originally posted by [email protected]:
Don't you see? Well, practice - and you yourself will get it. The speed will surely come gradually
I will definitely try. But here's the oddity, in 3 sources (completely different) not a word is said about gas in neutral, and in general about releasing the clutch in neutral when switching down:
http://www.edmunds.com/how-to/...articleid=45792
http://www.drivingfast.net/car...tm#.izvjkaL0HxA
http://www.eurotuner.com/howto/38238/
[email protected] 22-05-2013 01:28
quote: Originally posted by BAU:
Can you share a link where the double squeeze method for a box with synchronizers is described?
There is no difference - what with synchronizers, what without - the principle is the same. Synchronizers, of course, do not interfere with this process in any way, but help it.
quote: Originally posted by BAU:
You don't share the link.
Excuse me, but for a long time (there was no smell of the Internet yet) people taught me these basics very well in the subject. Is there a description in any wikis - I don’t even know
[email protected] 22-05-2013 01:30
Kir* 23-05-2013 13:36
quote: Originally posted by BAU:
On the contrary, the load on the gearbox and clutch is reduced.
Another thing is that the regassing should be exactly up to the speed at which the gearbox input shaft is spinning at the moment the clutch is released.
And who prevents you from shifting gears when the gears rotate at the same speed?
Kir* 23-05-2013 13:37
quote: Originally posted by carrier:
If, for example, at a speed of under a hundred without regassing, you put in second gear, then the wheels will block for a short time, and the loads on the transmission will be high.
You can also turn on reverse. And the fool knows that you can break ...
AAG 23-05-2013 16:23
In-in. everything should be reasonable)
BAU 25-05-2013 22:32
quote: Originally posted by [email protected]:
Excuse me, but for a long time (there was no smell of the Internet yet) people taught me these basics very well in the subject. Is there a description in any wikis - I don’t even know
No, I understand, repeatedly in the top ten of the DTM and the national podium ... Of course, the basics.
BAU 25-05-2013 22:34
And who prevents you from shifting gears when the gears rotate at the same speed?
Kir* 26-05-2013 01:19
quote: Originally posted by BAU:
In general, the conversation is just about how to make the speeds of the gears match. Well, the crankshaft and the input shaft of the gearbox.
Och is simple. Switch either up to 2 or after 3 thousand revolutions, well, a normal driver gets used to the box after 2-3 weeks and begins to feel when it is best to switch.
[email protected] 26-05-2013 14:34
quote: Originally posted by BAU:
many times in the top ten DTM and the national podium ... Of course the basics
What did you mean?! The fact that pilots who know (and can) the basics of motorsport win prizes? Or is there some other sacred meaning in that phrase?
quote: Originally posted by BAU:
In general, the conversation is just about how to make the speeds of the gears match. Well, the crankshaft and the input shaft of the gearbox.
quote: Originally posted by Kir*:
Och is simple. Switch either up to 2 or after 3 thousand revolutions
With such a ride, the horse understands that modern cars do not need any double squeezes and regassing, even during "mountain traffic light races" many people do not need them (and not on tracks at all, not always and not everyone comes in handy). But the fact of the principle itself does not change this. And the fact that even with simple "traffic light starts" without a double squeeze, you can break off with triple synchronizers - I know from my own experience, and not from reading on the Internet
HARON 26-05-2013 18:50
quote: Originally posted by bcc1357:
- Well, then gas to the floor and look in the left mirror.
usually, when the gas is on the floor, they don’t look in the mirrors ...
quote: With such a ride, the horse understands that modern cars do not need any double squeezes and regassing, even with "mountain traffic light races" they are not for many
modern cars should have an automatic. any design.
[email protected] 26-05-2013 20:09
modern cars should have an automatic. any design
Nonsense, no one owes anything to anyone. Although if you are talking about Kalash, emk and others like them, then in some African republics this may be true
HARON 26-05-2013 21:20
quote: Originally posted by [email protected]:
Nonsense, no one owes anything to anyone.
you are categorical as always... age? I work on a machine with mechanics, the second month - after so many years on the robot, not only uncomfortable and unusual, but corny strains and tires. mechanics - to aesthetes and perverts - however, a passenger car can also be mechanics, you can endure half an hour.
With regards to the topic - there were regassing when switching down on the robot. It seems that he is already there, where the character will no longer change much
Regarding "annoying and tiring" - well, maybe 10 hours a day on a truck would be tiring, I don't know ... But I'm constantly driving a variety of cars, day after day ... and almost all manual transmissions - it doesn't bother me and does not tire AT ALL, or rather, I do not even notice it. For example, in a traffic jam, the traffic jam itself annoys me, but I don’t notice any switching.
Apparently I'm a pervert.
P.S. And I also don’t notice how I breathe, and it doesn’t strain or tire the chest muscles either.
quote: Originally posted by HARON:
With regards to the topic - there were regassing when switching down on the robot.
It is for the reasons described above
quote: Originally posted by Alex_F:
Well, the Arabs on strike in Sweden think differently. So don't be so categorical!
THINKING and SHOULD BE - these are very different things - don't you think?
But we're talking about cars here, sort of... no?
P.S. They strike at the moment just around me. And they don't go on strike, they squirm. By the way, a completely crazy contingent - for them there are super conditions, they sit on the same benefits, do nothing (except stealing) - and even the havalniks dare to reveal
BAU 13-06-2013 19:25
quote: Originally posted by [email protected]:
What did you mean?! The fact that pilots who know (and can) the basics of motorsport win prizes? Or is there some other sacred meaning in that phrase?And you merged into it, saying that it is enough to rev "idle". Only now the input shaft rotates at the same speed with which it was spinning before the clutch was released when you were driving in another gear (gradually reducing or increasing it (due to the design of the gearbox - depending on the speed of the secondary shaft and the degree of contact of the clutch discs in the disengaged state) as a result of friction forces) and your gassing by the engine when the clutch is off, it is up to the bulb, therefore, before switching on another gear, the clutch is turned on for a split second and the speeds of the crankshaft and gearbox input shaft are equalized. And when you turn on the lowered one, they also accelerate it so that on the one hand it spins quickly, because. the secondary shaft will accelerate it anyway, and on the other hand, it spins synchronously with the engine, then the gear will enter easily and naturally.
Sorry for the "many letters" and perhaps a slurred explanation, but I'm not a teacher
No, I'm not talking about those pilots, but about your words. They, without confirmation by the results, are the same as mine))).
On a "short" box, there are enough synchronizers when switching up or down (actually, synchronizers do this every time, for example, during acceleration, where switching is carried out at fairly high speeds), unless of course you don't "hang" in neutral. Then, with the clutch depressed, the input shaft really slows down significantly. Therefore, we usually try to switch quickly, without losing traction while in neutral. I looked at my measurements - it takes me about 0.3 seconds to switch (completely, with the restoration of torque on the wheel) (Castrol TAF-X is flooded, it really helps). Now you suggest to hover in neutral during this period, release the aiming, throttle, squeeze the clutch and shift?
Maxim V 13-06-2013 19:53
I read it ...... how much rubbish people have in their heads .... once again it was confirmed that 85% of the participants absolutely do not understand what they are arguing about. Well, confusing "double squeeze" with "regassing" is unforgivable to anyone - even mega-veterans .....
BAU 13-06-2013 20:09
quote: Originally posted by Maksim V:
I read it ...... how much rubbish people have in their heads .... once again it was confirmed that 85% of the participants absolutely do not understand what they are arguing about. Well, confusing "double squeeze" with "regassing" is unforgivable to anyone - even mega-veterans .....
The topic of the dispute is indicated in the title of the topic))).
There are many types of peregazovaniya. Its initial use was due to the lack of synchronizers in the variable gearbox, which excluded their smooth engagement. Today, re-gassing is used for smoother engine speed changes when downshifting at high speed. In cases of lowering, a large load acts on the engine and gearbox, which can adversely affect performance.
How to do a peregazovka?
- With a standard peregazovka on the rise, before overtaking, in a turn, we reset the fuel supply and squeeze the clutch. Without stopping in the neutral position, lower it.
- We sharply press and release the accelerator pedal and briefly increase the fuel supply. We bring the engine speed to the value of the maximum torque. Release the clutch and open the throttle.
- When lowering through the gear, turn off the fuel supply to the engine, squeeze the clutch. We turn on the neutral gear and bring the engine speed to the value of the maximum torque with a margin for switching on a lower gear.
- Shift into low gear and release the clutch pedal. We increase the fuel supply.
- In the event of an emergency, we use high-speed regassing. Before the engine begins to lose speed, holding the throttle open, slowly engage the clutch.
- At the moment of a sharp rise in speed, we turn on a lower gear and clutch. By delaying the disengagement, you cause the clutch to slip, which will allow you to raise the speed of the crankshaft to the level you need.
- Applying peregazovka to compensate for the loss of speed when upshifting, turn off the clutch, move the gear knob to the neutral position. Sharply, but in doses, we increase and decrease the fuel supply. We turn on the increased gear, remove the foot from the clutch pedal and open the fuel supply.
Do you want the car to buck? Turn on low!
Downshifting is a little more difficult than upshifting. If you are a novice driver and it is not obvious to you, do the following: accelerate to 50 km / h in third gear, shift into second gear and quickly release the clutch pedal as usual. As a result, the tachometer needle will jump up sharply, and the car will twitch great. Try it! Happened?
This will always be the case when shifting from high to low gear, only the intensity of the jerk will be different depending on the speed and gear. Why is there a breakthrough? As the sharply “bouncing” tachometer needle shows us, when the gear is lowered, the engine speed increases. If, when switching from II to III gear, the needle drops from 3500 to 2500 rpm, then when switching from III to II, on the contrary, it jumps from 2500 to 3500. This means that including a lower gear, we forcibly accelerate the engine to higher RPMs. Since the rotating parts of the engine are heavy, inert, they resist spin-up, which is expressed in the jerk of the car. It turns out that a jerk is like a protest of the motor :)
Regassing or clutch?
So I recommend that you regularly, every time you downshift, use the throttle and preferably with double depressing the clutch pedal. By re-accelerating, you will change gear faster, smoother, and safer for both traffic and vehicle parts than by gently releasing the clutch pedal. Of course, it’s difficult to master gas recirculation, but if you do it, then, I’m afraid, you will like it, so much so that you won’t tear it off! And then you won’t be imprisoned for an automatic machine :)))
Toe Forever!
By the way, the overdrive (in English: toe) came to us from the good old fifties, from trucks that did not have synchronizers and it was impossible to turn on the gear without overdrive in principle. Therefore, today there is sometimes a point of view that, they say, regassing is an anachronism, hello from the past, and that any modern car does an excellent job with downshifts and without regassing. If you think so, then let's go back to the second paragraph of this article and once again turn on the lower gear without re-gassing. And for greater clarity, let's switch to 50 km / h not in second, but immediately in first gear. Just choose a quieter and wider place on the road, otherwise you will fly off the road, it won’t seem enough ...
I will also add that re-gassing is an integral part of the arsenal of tricks of any professional racer. So if you are planning to get into sports driving, gas recirculation is a must for you! Try it, keep it up!
And if you need practice - come to the courses "Magic of shifting" or "Driving on a race track". For novice drivers, the City Driving course is more suitable, and for advanced drivers, I can also advise you to take our school's exclusive course: MBA Driver Course: Driving Mastery.
Even if you are not going to comprehend the heights of racing driving, in any case, gas is an element of driving skill and the calling card of a competent driver. I recommend!
With shifting and downshifting - everything, and in the next article I will finally tell you
