Hello All!I’ll say right away that I’m sorry.
I’ve had about 10 years of experience already, I’ve always had them
front-wheel drive cars, and that’s enough,
that the city is not cleaned, and in the winter around the city,
I just can’t get through, I decided to buy a jeep or SUV,
the choice fell on Toyota RAV4 1997. with 4WD.
Well, I drove it in the summer, I was very happy with it
that you can climb almost everywhere on it, and for
families and cottages are just right. Cool car.And then winter came...
Well, I prepared for winter (fluids, battery, and suspension)
the car, of course, also changed the tires to winter ones,
though not studded on Michelin Alpine 4x4 (215/70/R16).
In our city, the first snow and ice, as always,
How disaster utilities, no snow
We waited and didn’t know, there was heavy rain in the evening,
then it began to snow, in the morning there was already 10-15 cm of snow,
and at the same time, it was already frozen, and there was ice below.
I had to go to the dacha with my mother-in-law in the morning, so I tore up the car
from the snow, started it, drove off, well, the roads, as always, were not cleared,
there are ice blocks on the turns, and an ice slide on the road
with a comb. We are not us, we are in a jeep, I am glad that it is a car,
so good, he drives through the snowdrifts, and walks through the snowy mess,
Well, great car, super. We left the city, well, as always,
out of habit, with front-wheel drive, I’m flying 70 km/h and can’t see,
that on the road outside the city the wind is strong and there is ice and crust.
Well, okay, I’m flying, and at some point during the detour, I don’t remember what,
the car starts to spin (or drift), I'm out of habit
with front-wheel drive, I press the gas pedal, I think I’ll get out somehow
from this drifting, but nothing works out, ahead of me,
in the left lane, cars and a regular slot, well, I think, only
no matter how I fit in, what the hell, I’ll fly out of the way,
there snow drifts, I’ll talk about them. Here in these thoughts,
I turn the steering wheel in different directions, trying to stabilize,
movement of the car, and get out of drifting, I get away from the cars,
then I see that I am being carried to the bus stop, the driver,
he also sees that he’s carrying me sideways towards him, let’s leave,
from each other, thank God, they left, while I was carried towards him,
It dawned on me that I need to brake with the engine, i.e. on the gas pedal
You cannot press in this situation. It all happened
in about 1-2 seconds. My mother-in-law sat next to me and didn’t say anything.
I told myself, well, screw it, I got some adrenaline,
I'll go back more carefully, I've had enough of this drifting
With first snow.
One thing that upset me was that I didn’t notice the number of the flight slot,
to drive up to apologize to him, and as a sign of gratitude
give me a bottle.Now the questions:
- What driving style should be and is needed at full-time
drive?
- And what you need to do to avoid the car spinning
on snowy road with ice? I myself understand that I can’t fly,
and if I was driving carefully, and got caught in the car spinning.
- Explain, I have never owned a car with rear-wheel drive,
the driving style in the rear is almost the same as on a permanent one
all-wheel drive?
- What is the best way to get out of an unintentional skid in a car with 4WD?
Just take your foot off the gas pedal and brake with the engine?
- And also, I realized that for all-wheel drive and to drive outside the city,
you need studded tires. Spikes, I think, give less chance to
the car spun and would have been thrown out of the lane.P.S: I understand that I did the wrong thing, I want to
so that this does not happen, here are the questions.Thank you...
----
With respect, Nicholai
Toyota RAV4 (left-hand drive), 1997, 3S-FE, manual transmission
Newly-made SUV owners often find themselves captive to illusions, not suspecting that torque distributed between four rather than two wheels is far from a panacea for loss of control. winter road. Today we are learning how to deal with drifts and drifts on all-wheel drive in the company Jaguar F-Pace First Edition.
Oh, the huge ice field waiting for me, lightly powdered with snow, at first seems like too far-fetched a test. When else in real life you will find yourself in such conditions... Overboard +1, Novorizhskoe highway covered aqueous solution reagents, but even an ordinary front-wheel drive hatch feels more than confident in this liquid.
One and a half kilometers to the side, turn onto the dirt road to the training ground - and the situation changes radically. Ice at borderline near-zero temperatures is especially slippery, with a film of water, and even studs are not always effective on such mixed terrain... “It would be easier with all-wheel drive...”, I thought, once again catching the car on a simple arc...
The 380-horsepower top-end Jaguar F-Pace, of course, has a ton of “ electronic assistants": both ABS and ESP, it can emergency brake and dynamically redistribute torque... And it also, of course, has all-wheel drive with multi-plate clutch and priority rear axle. Is it even necessary to learn to drive in winter, having such an arsenal? Need to!
“The driver of any car faces two dangers. The first is loss of stability, that is, drift of the front axle. The second is loss of controllability, that is, rear skidding. With an all-wheel drive transmission, these phenomena occur less frequently due to the redistribution of torque to each of the axles, and in the case of the F-Pace, also to each of the wheels.
The main advantage of all-wheel drive is a stable start from a standstill and the ability to maintain good controllability at fairly high speeds while driving.
How do you know when it's time to change your winter tires?
The material was prepared in collaboration with NITTO TIRES. In fact, the “self-diagnosis” procedure winter tires only slightly more complicated than that for summer ones. But if in that case the only official factor influencing...
58531 0 0 02.11.2016
If we talk about choosing the safest type of all-wheel drive, then ten years ago I would definitely recommend the “permanent” Full time scheme, in which torque is immediately present on both axles. The current electronically controlled clutches are so fast that at the slightest slipping of the drive axle, they connect the rear or front axle almost instantly, in 3.5 ms. But you simply won’t feel it, so there’s almost no point in permanent all-wheel drive.
Moreover, most of the time the second axis is simply not needed - this only gives increased consumption fuel and everything. And if we are talking about safety and controllability, then a car with a constant, unchanging torque on two axles is not very willing to move in an arc. It happens that it simply gets in the way on turning wheels - this happens on cars with a Torsen differential. Therefore, for normal driving conditions the most justified systems are based on Haldex couplings with priority to the front axle or Magna clutch with priority to the rear.
But you should always remember that braking distances car, which is very important, does not depend at all on the type of drive. So choosing a car is only a small part of success.”
Semyon Vodilnikov, senior instructor at Jaguar School Land Rover
Moving from theory to practice on the training ground Jaguar Land Rover near Moscow. The first task on an ice field seems to be simple - “snake” between cones with a gradual increase in the amplitude of movement and speed. Sooner or later this should lead to a loss of both stability and controllability. I will learn why, what and how to do next in the course of this fascinating and interesting play.
The F-Pace's multimedia display shows me in real time how torque is distributed across the wheels, but I don't have time to look at the pictures.
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As long as I don’t exceed the set limit of 30 km/h and steer carefully, the crossover perfectly avoids cones on almost bare ice, even on non-studded tires, without connecting ESP, which I can judge by the absence of a characteristic crunch and flashing pictograms.
Semyon Vodilnikov, senior instructor at Jaguar Land Rover School:
“Let's be completely honest. For each type of coating, for each type of tire, for each vehicle design, there is a maximum permissible speed, on which one or another maneuver can be performed without loss of stability or controllability. Naturally, with proper operation steering wheel, gas... If there are errors in “piloting”, this speed will be lower.”
So, any, even the most advanced stabilization system gives a 20 percent increase in maximum speed perform the maneuver safely. No more. That is, if in a car without ESP you pass this area without losing directional stability at 30 km/h, then from electronic stabilization the speed will be 36 km/h. Let's try!
As the speed and amplitude of driving around the cones increases, the stern begins to be thrown to the side, and the car loses controllability. ESP light flashes, the Jag becomes sluggish, but this does not make the lateral slip disappear. Excuse me, where is all the electronics going?
Semyon Vodilnikov, senior instructor at Jaguar Land Rover School:
“Nobody has canceled the laws of physics. If the impulse imparted to the car using the accelerator is excessive, then the car will move along the vector in the direction in which the moment was initially applied.
The direction can be adjusted using the steering wheel, gas and various additional technical solutions, be it redistribution of torque along axles or wheels, or selective braking of one or more wheels.
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But all this works within certain speed limits.
A typical mistake is turning into a corner at too high a speed. If it is done in winter, the front axle will most likely drift outward, which is very difficult to correct. Of course, there are professional or sports driving techniques that allow you to drive at very high speeds, but this is a special skill that takes years to learn.
Any electronic system stabilization is, first of all, an analyzer of the correctness of our actions while driving, and only secondarily an effective assistant. If the driver is not able to determine the moment the axles slip, the automatic operation is the first indicator that the speed needs to be reduced.
Don’t slam on the brakes right now, but understand: road conditions are such that you need to be more careful when entering the next turn or changing lanes, even on a perfectly straight track. And, of course, do not try to brake during maneuvers or on an arc. In this case, only correct management will help. But this, again, is a topic for multiple theoretical and practical studies. If you have no experience, then it’s easier to just go slower. Even with all-wheel drive."
Another exercise is acceleration with “gas to the floor” and emergency braking. Even on ice all-wheel drive transmission The F-Pace has difficulty digesting 460 Nm of torque, and the steering wheel has to work proactively to maintain straight-line stability. The stabilization system, which includes traction control, is turned off for now. The instructor's command, the brake to the floor, the ABS chirping - and the car stops without deviating from the course.
Semyon Vodilnikov, senior instructor at Jaguar Land Rover School:
“The electronics completely cope with their functions, determining how to distribute the force on the brake machines along the axes. But the most effective braking will not be with the pedal to the floor, but on the verge of ABS activation. This method can only be achieved through training and absolute knowledge of the habits of the car you are using.”
With the electronics turned on, everything happens much more calmly. It “strangles” the engine, corrects deliberate roughness of control and errors, not allowing the super-powerful Jaguar to go off course. Just in this case, all-wheel drive fully fulfills its existence.
Semyon Vodilnikov, senior instructor at Jaguar Land Rover School:
“In winter, the car can slide outward at low speeds. Inexperienced all-wheel drive drivers often make the mistake of thinking that with such a car they can add gas already at the entrance to the turn. As a result, we get sliding of both axes. There is only one way out of the situation: stabilize the front axle by straightening the steering wheel and trying to catch on to the surface, then compensate for the rear axle skidding by adding weak, “pulling” gas. Again, you need experience and practical training on your own car.
But it also happens that at a completely minimum speed the car does not go where it needs to go. It seems that you have turned the steering wheel all the way to the left, but it does not obey and goes straight or even to the right. In this case, turning the steering wheel in the direction of the drift of the axle will help you reach the desired course. in this case– to the right. Stereotypes prevent you from performing this simple movement, and you can only get rid of them through training.
Even himself to an experienced driver I would recommend taking a driver improvement or traffic safety training course once a year. If this is not possible, find a free area where you can practice certain previously mastered techniques and bring them to automaticity. In this case, the risk of falling into unpleasant situation, especially in winter, will decrease many times over.”
And finally, a few points purely about 4x4 vehicles:
- An all-wheel drive vehicle is stabilized only “under gas”.
- Having stabilized, it continues to accelerate, which is not always safe given the current traffic situation.
- An attempt to brake sharply in such conditions most often leads to the return of the original instability or uncontrollability, even if the trajectory is straight.
What's the result?
If you are an inexperienced driver who does not have the desire and opportunity to regularly train and get better, then the easiest way is to drive quite slowly, even if you have tall car with all-wheel drive that inspires confidence.
Have you lost control in all-wheel drive?
Is it possible to drive in winter with all-wheel drive, with an NP231 transfer case (without a center differential)
Transfer case 231. Tell me, please, is it possible to drive with all-wheel drive in winter, say on a highway (for example, Moscow-St. Petersburg)? The website says that “you can’t rush along a snowy highway...”, however, I heard the opinion that this only applies (!) to dry and hard surfaces, but does not apply to slippery, snowy, etc.
The question is relevant because... I have plans to go to Finland in winter.
Answer 1 Yes this is correct. BUT! The 231 transfer case does not have a differential, so high speed
driving 4H is simply dangerous. And the load on the transmission is too great - all the crosspieces begin to wear out.
I’ll try to give universal advice about: you CAN drive a 231 transfer case with all-wheel drive, but with reasonable restrictions.
1. DO NOT drive faster than 80 km/h - it’s dangerous!
2. DO NOT drive on dry hard surfaces - harmful to the transmission!
3. DO NOT drive on mixed roads (snow/asphalt) with slipping - you will definitely break something or spin the car!
Good luck.
Sasha.
I only use 4WD when it’s really bad, and then at speeds up to 40 km/h. And on Nakkapilit on a winter road it’s not bad even with 2WD.
Can humans eat all mushrooms?
Answer: All, but some only once in a lifetime.
I don't recommend this.
Could someone clearly and in a form accessible to a new camera describe the advantages and disadvantages of 231 and 242. I re-read almost the entire FAK - I still couldn’t decide (Specifically: does it drive in winter? rear wheel drive(ZP) (for example, as in the classics), is it stable to move on the ZP in speed limit, probability of skidding on parttime/fulltime, etc.).
The question is relevant because... I have plans to go to Finland in winter.
As a person who personally replaced 231 with 242 on Chirka, I will say this. Personally, it was downright uncomfortable for me to drive with a 231 transfer case on rear wheel drive in winter. In the city, with average snow cover on the roads, I was frankly ashamed of my teal when, when starting off, it wiggled its rear like the last underdrive. When entering the turn it was scary, because I was afraid of catching the neighbors downstream with my butt moving to the side. Enabling the mode Part Time on the 231st it saved only partly, because if from a standstill in this mode it was possible to get off the porridge normally and not drive fast in a straight line, but it was still possible, then when entering a turn on snowy road I almost got killed once. The fact is that in Part-Time mode, with a more or less strong turn of the steering wheel, due to the lack of center differential, the front wheels SIMPLY STOP ROTATING AND GO SKIDDING. And if somewhere in the shit at a speed of 3 km/h it’s not scary, then in winter at ordinary road
, an attempt to negotiate a 90-degree turn at a speed greater than 10 km/h will end with the car crashing into anything standing on the outer radius of this very turn. And all because the car goes into a turn with the front wheels locked and on a slippery road it becomes simply uncontrollable. I was lucky at one time, and there was just a snowdrift there.... So you can, of course, listen to people who say that the 231st transfer case is a panacea for any weather conditions
, but I’m also talking about what I know about, and I responsibly declare: I AM ABSOLUTELY SATISFIED WITH THE 242nd TRANSFER MANAGEMENT AND IT WAS OPENLY UNCOMFORTABLE FOR ME TO DRIVE THE 231st. Nowadays, after replacing 231 with 242, driving a teal in winter in Full-Time mode is a pleasure. In the snow the car is moving
on asphalt and takes turns the way a Jeep should. :)
AndrewSlk, January 31, 2005
Sasha.
Left Moscow on Tuesday at 17:00. Returned yesterday afternoon. For the first 2 days I didn’t turn off the desk time at all. I drove about 700 km on a part-time basis. The road surface is made of slush, ice and in some places asphalt with gravel. I drove quite fast, taking turns like a fan. Upon arrival in Moscow, I found out that such aggressive driving on the part-time, at speeds above 100 km/h, killed him. both front wheels. The outer side of the rubber is devoured, the spikes are missing as a fact...-)