Hello! Acquisition of housing with the help of credit funds from various banking organizations is often the only opportunity for many citizens to acquire real estate in their property. But, before choosing a home, you need to calculate - how much the mortgage will be approved by the bank, what factors will be taken into account.

• Upper and lower thresholds for loan amounts;
• View the payment schedule for the entire crediting period;
• Choose a convenient type of payment - annuity or differentiated;
• Determine the required level of income for loan approval;
• Find out how the early repayment of the mortgage will affect at different periods and at different amounts;
• Understand the final payment after the mortgage is repaid by the parent capital.

You can also contact the bank branch directly and preliminary calculate the possible amount of the future loan.

What factors will the bank take into account when calculating the amount available for lending to a citizen:

• The borrower's income level - the mortgage payment should not exceed 40-60% of the funds received by the citizen. The citizen's earnings are confirmed by a certificate in the form of 2-NDFL, or according to the established bank. Additionally, papers may be provided confirming income and part-time employment, other monthly receipts acceptable for accounting for income.

Sberbank, for example, allows a payment of such a size that about 10,000 of the remaining total income remains for each family member. In doing so, he takes into account additional income without documents. This allows you to significantly increase the loan amount.

• Borrower's age. Most banks limit the amount for individuals who will meet the retirement age "thresholds" at the time of loan repayment. There is also a minimum age threshold for a borrower, in most credit institutions - from 21 years.

From the age of 18, you can get a mortgage in Ak Bars and Globex Bank, and the maximum age of the borrower is in Sberbank and Transcapitalbank (75 years at the end of the mortgage)

• Total expenses for all family members, number of dependents. Each bank has its own calculations on the minimum amount of accounting for expenses for each family member. On average, this amount is within the minimum subsistence level.

A number of banks (VTB 24, Raiffeisenbank, Trancapitalbank, etc.) do not take into account children and other dependents at all when calculating the loan amount. This allows you to significantly increase the size of the mortgage. Moreover, if you have many children, and the income is not enough, then we recommend, first of all, to contact such banks.

• Availability of active and repaid loans, the quality of fulfillment of obligations under them. With the timely repayment of all debt obligations and a good credit history, the bank can issue a mortgage even if there are other obligations to credit institutions.

Credit history is a topic for another big conversation. Banks do not see all loans, and each one interprets the acceptable number of delinquencies differently, in terms of approval. We recommend reading our post "" if you have doubts about the purity of your history in front of banks.

• The ability to provide a full package of documents - preferential programs and a mortgage on two documents have a reduced threshold for the maximum amount and loan term, but because they allow you to write any income in the questionnaire, then you can get an amount much higher than when providing a standard package of documents.
• Type of real estate object - for under construction, finished housing, suburban real estate, the allowable loan amount will be different, as well as the size of the first installment and the annual lending rate.
• The presence or absence of co-borrowers and / or guarantors. It is necessary not only to get a guarantee of the return of bank funds and confirmation of additional income. Quite often, a surety is issued, for example, during the construction of an object when registering a mortgage for housing under construction.
• The cost of the loaned object. It is checked against the valuation report provided by the borrower. If there is a significant difference, only the price indicated in the bank documents will be offset, or the borrower will have to choose another property.
• Borrower's place of residence - for residents of the capital regions, the thresholds for the minimum and maximum amounts are changing.
• The presence or absence of an insurance policy will affect the rate on the loan and, accordingly, will affect the financial ability of the borrower to pay certain payments.
• The privileged position of a citizen is participation in state programs for the provision of subsidies, or the presence of a bank salary card.
• The possibilities of the bank itself. Taking into account its costs and time for processing and servicing a loan, the bank will determine the amount possible for lending.

Minimum

The average minimum mortgage as a percentage of the total value of real estate is 25-30%. Less - 10-20% is not so much that citizens ask less often, how much it is unprofitable to provide for the banking institution itself.

The minimum amount of a mortgage loan is possible at Rosselkhozbank - it is only 100,000 rubles.

The payments made by the borrower will not affect the total amount:

• On registration of insurance for a credited immovable object;
• On an appraisal examination of the object by an independent expert;
• Notarial and other transactions for registration of real estate or technical documentation.

In connection with the obligatory pledge of the purchased real estate to the bank, if the borrower has almost the entire cost of the apartment, it is recommended to issue not a mortgage with a minimum rate for the minimum amount, but a small consumer loan, for the issuance of which you do not need a pledge and insurance of the object.

In any case, the borrower needs to carefully study the terms of the loan agreement, whether or not it is possible to issue a loan for the minimum amount, its percentage of the total cost of housing and the terms of lending when applying for a loan for 100% of the value of real estate.

Maximum

The maximum size of a mortgage loan is on average 70-80% of the cost of the purchased real estate and also depends on a number of external factors and conditions on the part of the borrower and the bank.

When you reach the threshold of the amount of 100%, you should be on your guard. Such lending is usually approved for persons who do not have savings for a down payment, so the loan rate can be changed upwards.

Also, with 100% lending or requesting the maximum possible amount, the borrower usually decreases the loan term and introduces any additional conditions.

The maximum mortgage loan amount depends on the following factors:

1. The total family income. The mortgage co-borrower will allow you to increase the loan amount.
2. The number of dependents. The more dependents, the less the amount of approval, in order to increase it it is necessary to consider banks that do not take them into account or conclude a marriage contract and remove one spouse from the transaction.
3. Debt obligations. Credit cards (even if you don't use them), loans can severely cut your maximum credit limit. Be sure to close all unnecessary, and if there are a lot of debts, then perhaps, again, you cannot do without a bruiser. It will allow you to withdraw from the transaction the spouse who has the maximum debt burden.
4. Region of purchase of the object. In Moscow and St. Petersburg, the amount is higher.
5. Bank and its mortgage program. Each bank independently determines its credit policy and sets limits for various types of programs.

It is recommended to arrange the maximum possible amount of a mortgage loan for persons who have the installation and the ability to repay debt obligations ahead of schedule, or borrowers with a fairly high level of income.

Top 10 Mortgage Banks Offers

Considering various loan offers, it is initially better to find out exactly how much a mortgage is given in a particular bank, whether this amount will be enough for a loan and what pitfalls and nuances exist. Let's consider what the maximum and minimum amounts will be given by the leading Russian banks to citizens who apply for a mortgage loan.

Bank	Minimum mortgage amount, rubles	Maximum mortgage amount, rubles	Nuances
Sberbank	300000	15000000	The bank gives an increased mortgage amount for the purchase of housing in Moscow, St. Petersburg and the corresponding regions
VTB 24	600000	60000000	It is possible to purchase housing under construction, ready-made or already mortgaged in the bank
Raiffeisenbank	500000	26000000	For the Moscow region, the minimum has been increased to 800,000 rubles
VTB Bank of Moscow	600000	8000000	The maximum is the same for all lending programs
Gazprombank	500000	45000000	Minimum - at least 15% of the total value of the loaned object
DeltaCredit Bank	300000	20000000	For Moscow, the first installment is 600,000
Rosselkhozbank	100000	20000000	The amount and rate are the same for the primary and secondary markets
Bank "Saint-Petersburg	500000	30000000	To obtain the maximum funds, it is necessary that the mortgage is issued for ready-made housing (secondary housing) for a shortened period of no more than 15 years
Bank "Revival	300000	30000000	An initial payment of up to 80% is allowed
Absolut Bank	300000	20000000	One size for primary and secondary markets

When is it worth taking out a mortgage, and when is it easier to take a consumer

It is no coincidence that banks designate two types of thresholds for mortgage loans.

"For" mortgage:

• The rate is slightly lower;
• Acceptable payment for the entire loan term;
• You can get a refund of mortgage interest and other benefits from the state;
• Full or partial early repayment, including with the help of mat. Capital.

"For" requirements:

• Real estate is subject to pledge at the bank and when the loan is repaid, a lot of time is spent to remove the encumbrance and funds to re-register the transaction in Rosreestr. It is easier to issue a consumer loan for the purchase of an apartment at a higher interest rate;
• You can freely dispose of the property at your discretion;
• The speed of obtaining a demand and conducting a transaction is several times faster than for a mortgage.

You can avoid collateral and high interest rates by applying for an installment plan at the developer's office or from the seller. Its term can be from several months to a couple of years.

If you need legal support for a transaction, it is easy to get it with the help of our free legal consultant. He will tell you about all the nuances. Leave your request in a special form.

You can apply for a mortgage through this service, and you can find out from our last article.

We are waiting for your questions and suggestions below. Support our project on social networks and rate the article.

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The question of how high a quadrocopter can fly was asked by everyone who has seen such a device at least once in his life. Let's answer right away that such a device will not reach the Earth's orbit, and for these purposes there are completely different devices. And quadcopters designed for entertainment and professional aerial photography have clear parameters, which we will pay attention to.

What determines the maximum height of the quadcopter

In order to raise the quadrocopter as high as possible in the air, it is not enough just desire. From a control point of view, patience is also required, with which you will have to press the joystick in one single direction for a long time until it reaches its peak position in the air. The upper limit of this peak position will correspond to the maximum height of the quadcopter.

For each model of flying drones, this characteristic is individual and depends on a whole set of factors. The main ones are engine power, battery capacity, equipment signal range and software settings.

If the latter can be changed by the user at his discretion in a number of cases, such as, for example, a fully assembled quadcopter with his own hands, then other parameters are usually not adjustable and completely depend on the hardware components of the model. The capacity of the batteries cannot be adjusted upward, however, they can be replaced with more capacious ones, provided that other components allow it, since a discrepancy between the input and output voltages can lead to the fact that the quadrocopter will have to be thrown out due to a breakdown.

If the range of the equipment can be increased by using repeaters and signal repeaters purchased additionally as an accessory, then the power of the motors cannot be increased without harm to the quadcopter. Replacing the motors may result in a denial of service to the device, if such is suggested by the manufacturer.

Maximum height of drones of different models

If we consider the categories of quadcopters in general, then indoor models will have the lowest flight altitude. The reason for this is not the height of the ceilings, but the same range of the equipment signal. In miniature nano and micromodels, the Bluetooth channel is often used as a control signal, the range of which usually does not exceed 50 meters. Most often, in the specifications, the manufacturer indicates the effective range, which is 20-30 meters, when small obstacles do not become an obstacle between the quality of control and the pleasure of use.

For such models, this is quite enough, since such small devices are rarely used in large areas. Medium-sized models in the budget price range usually have a greater range of equipment, which is why the flight altitude also increases. In this case, radio frequencies are used for control, the strength of which directly depends on the power of the receiver and transmitter.

In budget models, they very rarely have sufficient strength, and therefore the maximum flight altitude in such cases is limited to an altitude in the range from 100 to 500 meters. The second reason for this is the low-power brushed motors, which do not allow them to take off high above the ground. So that they do not burn out during the flight, controllers are installed on them, which limit the engine speed and, accordingly, prevent the burnout of these electronic parts.

With the increase in the quality of components, unfortunately, their cost also increases. Therefore, it is not for nothing that models of a higher price category rise much higher into the air. Basic level models rise to a height of 1.5-2 km. This is ensured by both more powerful signal transmitters and more reliable brushless motors. They are much more effective in overcoming the force of gravity and lift the quadcopter higher and higher. However, this is not the limit.

The most advanced models can fly much higher. Some of them, which can fly longer in the air due to larger batteries, can climb higher for this very reason. They are also helped by specially designed motors and data transmission channels with increased flow, which ultimately provide a flight altitude of 10,000 meters above sea level. In order not to be unfounded, we will give examples of models and their maximum flight altitude:

• Flairics Journalist - 2000 meters
• Homeland Surveillance RDASS Q1000 - 3657 meters
• JYU Spider X - 4000 meters
• DJI Phantom 4 - 6000 meters
• AEE F100 Drone - 10,000 meters

Parting words

If you decide to lift the quadcopter to the maximum peak altitude it can reach, keep in mind that this requires the maximum battery charge. Many models, especially inexpensive ones, do not have a self-save function. With a critical battery charge, they can simply collapse to the ground, regardless of the height under the quadcopter. Therefore, the higher it is in the peak position, the more damage its structure can receive after a fall.

Only 2 things save from such cases - this is the incredible reaction and dexterity of the operator, or the reserve rescue parachute, which is triggered in the event of a quadcopter falling. It is worth taking care of its availability in advance and purchasing it for an additional fee if it is included in the set of accessories that can be combined with your drone model.

You can buy excellent quadcopters in - free shipping across Russia and the CIS, good prices!

Video with high-altitude flights of quadcopters

MS03677896313 11-07-2015 04:20

Hello dear community!

As some already know, I have been sharpening for a relatively short time and therefore I immediately ask you to forgive me for some inaccuracy.

I noticed that not all steels can be brought to a certain sharpness. Here on the forum, unfortunately, I did not find a similar topic and therefore I wanted to contact the experts.
That is actually the question: what does the maximum sharpness of the knife depend on?
In order not to inflate the topic too much, there are several simplifications at once. Let's say we have knives with practically the same geometry and we sharpen both knives with the same method with the same angle ... and one person sharpens them.

After reading various sources, I found a person who claims that it depends on the size of the grain. That is, if the grain is 20 micrometers, then sharpening with an abrasive with a grain of 10 micrometers will bring nothing, since all possibilities have been exhausted on an abrasive of 20 micrometers. Is this possible?

The second opinion was that it depends on steel. I understand that high carbon steels can be sharpened much sharper than stainless steels. No explanation of why was provided here.

What do you think of it?

Skif 77 11-07-2015 07:00

quote: Originally posted by MS03677896313

In order not to inflate the topic too much

A respected person without a name (there is no name in the profile), I read everything three times, .. then I felt funny. I'm not a big expert, I'm just learning. Try to ask in the future on one question, and read these "different sources" less. Best regards, Sergei.

Pal / Bor 11-07-2015 07:39

After reading various sources,

For about 30 years I sharpened with fragments of grinding wheels with a minimum of about 600. And I checked the burr on the nail. And everyone liked it. Then Lansky appeared with a minimum of 1200. And his wife began to swear for being too sharp. She's unusual. Now a set of diamonds is made for Lansky and all Everything suits the shopping mall, there was no aggressive saw, and a clean long-playing micro-saw appeared. I will not get into the jungle of high-grit stones.
I know that not everyone in this section will consider my advice to be correct, but I would advise you to buy a regular Chin. Apex + a set of Venev diamonds + a GOOD magnifying glass. And for the first time you will have enough. Acute angle + no burrs = a sharp knife. and the better the steel, the longer the RK will live. And then you yourself will understand how much you need experiments with angles on a particular knife, or there will be enough musat.

MS03677896313 11-07-2015 10:58

I have had an apex for a long time ... and a set of stones for it ... later I bought a couple of natural stones ... recently I bought a trance from Norton ... I was purely interested in why one knife is sharper than the other ... nothing else .. ...

MS03677896313 11-07-2015 11:49

Guys, I'm seriously asking ... and here philosophy begins
One about an elephant and a whale, the other about a Cossack and horses ...

grinderman 11-07-2015 12:19

I'll add my "5 kopecks":

Pal / Bor 11-07-2015 13:38

quote: Originally posted by MS03677896313:

... I have apex for a long time ... and a set of stones for it ... later I bought a couple of natural stones ... recently I bought a trance from Norton ... I was purely interested in why one knife is sharper than the other ... nothing else .. ...

You did not quite understand me correctly. One knife is sharper than another due to lack of precision. And this is expressed in: a burr, different purity of the RK (the same micro-saw, how micro-saw it is), angle of information. And hence: there is no gravity stone, there are hands holding it , not all stones work the same for all steels, some of them can tear, although they will be of high grit, and some will get greasy and will slide. And there are soft steels from which a knife was made by mistake, or THAT is not correct. So it turns out that you you chase this very burr from side to side, or it just fell off, and again there was no way to understand what edge. smoothes it. You made 50 strokes, the edge shone a little brighter, but before deburring you still have to go 50 a few times for good. But you can see this only in GOOD optics, with the right light. This I still do not climb into the jungle of coolant. It's separate.
With diamonds (for me personally) it is easier. They are more versatile, they gnaw on everything and less salty. And since I do not set myself the task of removing all the risks from the previous number the first time, they are displayed after the second or third time. I know what is wrong, but Time is expensive. I have enough diamond + leather set with GOI. And when the knife sits down I use musat from a polished 200mm PH2 bit.
For a better understanding, I would advise you to read the theory given by the moderator Nikolai and try to sharpen not only household knives.
And yet. Personally, it seems to me that knives made of carbon are more "sharp" than stainless steel. And it is easier for me to sharpen a knife from P6M5 than from 440.

Frol Frol 11-07-2015 13:54

quote: Originally posted by MS03677896313:

That is, if the grain is 20 micrometers, then sharpening with an abrasive with a grain of 10 micrometers will not bring anything, since all possibilities have been exhausted on an abrasive of 20 micrometers. Is this possible?

Necessarily 20 microdistrict, then 10 microdistrict, then 5 microdistrict, then 1 microdistrict, it is possible even less if the conscience allows :-) it would only be good to poop in a small one and make sure that the risks of 20 are overwritten by 10 and so on.
Dear, what did you want? Orange pants? :-) joke:-)
What are your goals? To sharpen the pencil, or to shake off the hair from the beard by weight?
With the skill, you can also bring a Chinese kitchen cooker for 100 re from stainless steel to shaving off a hair or 600 cuts along a rope, there are also such specialists in gypsy sharpening :-)

MS03677896313 12-07-2015 13:35

One knife is sharper than the other due to lack of precision. And this is expressed in: a burr, different purity of the RK (the same micro-saw, how micro-cut it is), angle of information. And hence: there is no gravity stone, there are hands holding it, not all stones work the same way. all steels, which one can tear, although it will be of high gritness, but which one will become greasy and will slide.

That is, if I understand you correctly, you say that any steel (let's say that the composition and maintenance are optimal) can be brought to, say, 0.5 microns?

quote: Originally posted by Pal / Bor:

You made 50 moves, the edge shone a little brighter, but before removing the burr, you still have to walk 50 times for good several times.

And how else can you establish whether there is a burr or not, except on a microscope? And how to remove it. When I have a burr on both sides, I start tracing on each side 10 times ... then 9, 8 and so on. When I got to one time, I thought that the burr was removed anyway ... Am I wrong?

quote: Originally posted by Pal / Bor:

Personally, it seems to me that carbon knives are more "sharp" than stainless steel.

You see ... this is again point one ... and it turns out a small inconsistency ...

Necessarily 20 microdistrict, then 10 microdistrict, then 5 microdistrict, then 1 microdistrict, you can even less if your conscience allows :-)

Dear Frol Frol, you misunderstood me at all. I said that if the steel on the knife has a grain of 20 microns, then is there any point in sharpening it with an abrasive with 10 microns ... and which stone follows which (by grain size), I think even a person who has never sharpened understands this ... but thanks anyway

oldTor 12-07-2015 14:06

the burr is different. And visible to the eye under the right lighting (lighting is in many ways a key moment when working - read the topic of sharpening by glare, for example), and barely noticeable, and the human eye is able to distinguish objects less than 10 microns with the naked eye.
Small burr phenomena, with some skill, can be felt when passing the edge along the nail, sometimes those that are already invisible to the eye, well, even smaller ones - yes, under a microscope, or even only on a microphoto.
Read the topic about burrs, there were at least two or three of them - the question arises with enviable regularity, and no one is looking for and reading those topics with enviable regularity.

If the steel has, for example, "elephant-like" chromium carbides under 30 microns even, this does not mean that it cannot be sharpened sharply.
Can. You just have to pant, because carbides are not only hard, but also brittle, and also a lot depends on the properties of the matrix.
You can break them out from the zone of the RK, they can be crumbled and they will fly out, you can screw up a lot and replace the geometric sharpness - the desire for the smallest radius of rounding of the RK, the presence of aggressive risks on the RK, which does not have special resistance when cutting dense and / or viscous materials, for example wood or plastic.
But often you can still get an acceptable precisely in terms of the subtlety of the RC, the selection of abrasives and the technique of work.
It's another matter that I don't consider it normal when there are carbides of this size in steel. This is suitable for lovers of "self-coloring", ugh - self-renewing edge, which to carefully and cleanly cut out, for example, a hatchet - hellish work.
So it makes sense, but in the event that you consider it advisable to tinker with a specific blade, and have enough patience, work skills, and an arsenal of abrasives to select for a specific blade.

oldTor 12-07-2015 14:30

Here is an example for you, by the way, of something that is not a burr yet, but it can become one in just a couple of passes on a pasted belt, and even on a thin stone, if you slightly push or work from the grain:

This is a razor chamfer finished on jasper. small divisions on the scale = 0.02 mm. - 20 microns.
Jasper is not the best stone for the finish of razors, I tried it out of sports interest, but pay attention to the very edge - it is a little lighter than the rest of the supply - it glares, and has something similar to wrinkles - in the future, with a poise, they will appear there.
But this is not a burr yet - it is just a very thin edge, but in the process of achieving such a subtlety - "fatigue" - that is. I believe I reworked.
Such a thin piece cannot be tormented for a long time - the loads there at the micro level are hellish. And when checking in a microscope while sharpening - you gradually learn to "whip" such moments - that here it will not be steadfast - I almost began to pull out a new micro-burr from the edge.
So when it comes to a thin edge, about the stages when the influence of plastic deformations on the final result is much greater than on sharpening ones, there are a lot of subtleties.
And there is still a lot to understand there.

MS03677896313 12-07-2015 21:16

oldTor, thanks a lot for the clarification. Your optics are just drooling ... what kind of technique, if not a secret?

But this is not a burr yet - it is just a very thin edge, but received in the process of achieving such a subtlety - "fatigue"

That is, you can accidentally sharpen the edge (that is, sharpen too hard) to such a state ... this applies only to razors with mild steel or also takes place in sharpening knives, say with a total angle of 40 ??

oldTor 12-07-2015 21:43

Thank you)

Yes, it is quite.

MS03677896313 12-07-2015 22:34

quote: Originally posted by oldTor:

Peak 2008-50 microscope, samsung NX300 carcass, Industar 61 l / z ms lens with a middle macro ring from the m42 set.

Wow ... so you put a lens on the NX300 and take pictures through a microscope? Or is there still a way to fix the camera?

oldTor 12-07-2015 22:48

in Industar 61 the design is such that the front part of the objective is like a "natural hood" into which the rubber eyecup is perfectly softly recessed onto the eyepiece of the microscope. Of course, some skill is required to shoot "hand-held" so that the movement is at a minimum, but it is possible even at low ISO values ​​- 100-250.
At first I steamed with a tripod, but it took too long, so I had to learn to adjust by hand)
First, I use the focus of Industar to catch the measuring scale of the microscope, and focus on the object of study is already done with the focusing ring of the microscope - thanks to Oleg (Botanic) for the idea.

Frol Frol 13-07-2015 11:35

quote: Originally posted by MS03677896313:

And how else can you establish whether there is a burr or not, except on a microscope?

But I don’t install :-) I theoretically think that it should be there :-) but I just clean it, 3-5 ditch on a piece of wood across the layers, then I try for sharpness, if it becomes more aggressive, then the burr is broken off, then I bring it back a little higher corner and again on a piece of wood, if after that it became sharper, but "smoother", then good :-) If after 5-6 cuts on a hard piece of wood the knife cuts the cellophane from a regular bag under its own weight and shaves the hair, then it suits me perfectly.

Frol Frol 13-07-2015 11:39

quote: Originally posted by MS03677896313:

if the steel on the knife has a grain of 20 microns

Yaroslav rightly said, these are elephant shoals, not carbides, there will be problems for the Republic of Kazakhstan, and it will be pouring in. Here, the corners are probably needed like a chisel.
Somehow I came across such a knife, I made a micro-feed to it with a lens at 90 degrees on a very soft slate with a thick suspension. I cut the meat well, really.

MS03677896313 13-07-2015 19:03

MS03677896313 13-07-2015 19:07

quote: Originally posted by Frol Frol:

Yaroslav rightly said, these are elephant shoals, not carbides, there will be problems for the Republic of Kazakhstan, and it will be pouring in.

Here is a table of steels with grain sizes (middle column).
It says that the finest-grained steel starts at 12 microns. I'm not sure if all knives use the finest grained steel.
Although who knows ... maybe your steel is better in Russia than here in Germany ...

oldTor 13-07-2015 19:21

For example, I will take, say, quick cutters, according to GOST. p6m5, p18 ....

"The most effective improvement of the structure is achieved in high-speed steels obtained by powder metallurgy. Molten steel is sprayed in an inert gas to prevent oxidation. This forms a fine powder with a spherical shape of individual elements, with a diameter of 100: 600 microns. The powders are pressed in a cold state at a pressure of about 400 MPa. , then hot pressing is carried out at 1150?: 1200? C and a pressure of 140: 150 MPa in a vacuum.

The sizes of carbides in steels obtained by this method are very small - 2: 3 microns (in steels of conventional production, carbides with sizes up to 12: 15 microns are found). The distribution of carbides (carbide heterogeneity) corresponds to 1: 2 points. "

P.S. I do not know where your table comes from and what is in it, but I dare to assume that this is approximately what is shown in the article to which I gave a link, in table 5.
Those. not the size of carbides, but the allowable grade of carbide heterogeneity of certain steels, depending on the diameter of the rolled stock according to a certain standard, an analogue of GOST, or something similar. It seems?

Nikolay_K 13-07-2015 19:44

1) steel contains both a carbide phase and martensite itself
and for each of these phases there is a certain particle size distribution
let's distinguish it clearly without lumping it together.

martensitic steels are usually evaluated for the uniformity and distribution of the carbide phase.

austenitic --- by grain size

2) but in some martensitic steels, carbides and a carbide phase may not be present at all, for example, in nitrogen-hardened ones.

3) ASTM E112 and McQuaid Ehn test for determining the grain size of steel are usually only relevant for steels of the austenitic class, and not for martensitic
and therefore does not matter for our tasks (austenite is not suitable for making knives)

it is difficult to discern the structure of martensitic steel and characterize its grain size using a conventional optical microscope ...

for martensitic steels, you can see the details in the book:

ASM Specialty Handbook: Tool Materials
Editor: Joseph R. Davis
ISBN: 978-0-87170-545-7

oldTor 13-07-2015 19:45

As for the German steels, I have a good impression. I already once compared the difference in sharpening and in the magnification visible to me at that time.
Here is the result of sharpening an old, already dear Boker, a commercial year 2006:
http://www.liveinternet.ru/users/oldtor/post310633818/
But the attempts of the racial "author's thermal" with the "self-renewing RK", designed, apparently, for those who with a knife except for a rope does not cut anything:
http://www.liveinternet.ru/users/oldtor/post310287314/

There is a difference in processing and a difference in quality.
True, I managed to cope with the blade from the lower view, but I had to pant ...

Nikolay_K 13-07-2015 20:05

the same one from which the blades of their razors Gillette and Wilkinson are made

End 13-07-2015 21:40

currently considered Sandvik 12C27
the same one from which the blades of their razors Gillette and Wilkinson are made

close to it I would put MBS-26

behind them somewhere nearby will be AEB-L, Sandvik 13С27, etc.

And where can you see the texture from which this conclusion is made? Or at least just a link to a book or post. Interested in the texture itself and what other steel was compared. Thank you.

Nikolay_K 14-07-2015 02:32

And where can you see the texture from which this conclusion is made?

I managed to get a sharpness from which I was even surprised myself

and that was 6 years ago, Karl!

oldTor 14-07-2015 02:44

In general, if you answer the question of this topic as briefly as possible, omitting the TO, steel grade, tasks, time costs, material costs, etc., then a short one will remain:
"the maximum sharpness of a knife depends on the approach to business."

End 14-07-2015 10:47

quote: Originally posted by Nikolay_K:

the best steel for lovers of razor-thin edges
currently considered Sandvik 12C27

quote: Originally posted by Nikolay_K:

the conclusion is made on the basis of what has been read on the forums, on the Internet, heard from smart people and tested in our own practice

So they would write what is considered Nikolay_K, and Sandvik 12C27 steel, according to many reviews, has good characteristics, allowing you to get a sharp and durable edge. Immediately the best and this is a unanimous opinion. As if on Ao2, Gin3, VG-10 and some other steels, you cannot get a razor sharp and durable edge.
.
.
.

quote: Originally posted by Nikolay_K:

precisely on a knife made of Sandvik 12C27 with a very good TMO

Nikolay_K 14-07-2015 11:22

quote: Originally posted by End:

So they would write what is considered Nikolay_K, ...

Immediately the best and this is a unanimous opinion. As if on Ao2, Gin3, VG-10 and some other steels, you cannot get a razor sharp and durable edge.

Yeah,
I didn't even notice the elephant ...

and the fact that 90% of the blades on the market today are made from this steel
these are trifles and trifles, right?

to get a "razor sharp edge on VG10" Nikolay_K later also learned, but it turned out to be more difficult and the result depends more on TMO

because the carbides in VG10 are quite large
compared to 12C27

quote: Originally posted by End:

from such kitchen knives are now sold somewhere. Real kitchens, not Finns, etc., which can only be adapted to the kitchen.

there used to be very good kitchen makers from the Swedish EKA
and cost very moderate

then they became much more expensive and disappeared ...

now you can find chic Japanese-made kitchenettes
from Sandvik 19С27 with cryo-TMO, great mixing, beautiful finish and other delights
but the price is not cheap ... more expensive than Tramontina Century

End 14-07-2015 11:35

Nikolay_K, well, where does the blade. We're talking about real things here. "Survival" knives from Sandvik 19C27 can be found, but not everyone needs it, but I think many will be an intern for the "kitchen". Please throw a link / photo / company on knives from "Sandvik 19С27 with cryo-TMO, excellent mixing, beautiful finish and other delights, but the price is not cheap ..." - you can do without charms, preferably more budgetary. So far, it turns out that Tramontina and Tanaka are ours - and the price is moderate and the steel is excellent. But throw the link into the kitchen from the sandwiches anyway. Thank you.

End 14-07-2015 14:17

Botanic, where can I buy it? Added to the search, buying, etc. - there are not a lot of offers. All folders are one. Mora has one chef. The rest is, in one way or another, special purpose - for fish, fillets, etc. Opinel have small ones. So it turns out, like an excellent steel, but there is nothing to buy home. I would have looked at a Japanese kitchenette. And this, I have nothing against the sandwich, but that the others began to bypass the side and it is so strange to generalize.

And what are they selling now - of the same quality? I would buy into the kitchen for a try.

SergeyKu 14-07-2015 14:24

opinel kitchen knife buy - dial ...

Botanic 14-07-2015 14:25

quote: Kitchen chef knife Intempora? 218 19.7 cm

If you need more - see opinel # 13

End 14-07-2015 14:43

Oh, hurt yourself. Thank you. And then I went to the EKA website and something is swollen - almost 7000 rubles and this is at a discount. But 3-4000 rubles is also not enough, you can already watch VG-10. You still need to buy it for education - that mora in the picture seemed pretty and the Japs are interesting. I have a small stainless steel. opinel, but VG-10 is definitely better for me - and it sharpens to cut the hair without problems and keeps the sharpening. I’m not even talking about the bouiags.

Only I noticed that in some places, in particular the Japanese, Sandvik 12C27 is not indicated, but 19 C27. These are related steels, i.e. 19 C27 gives a sharp and relatively strong edge just as easily as 12C27? I did not compare, it was enough for me that "paper" and VG-10 are better than 12C27 on an opinele.

Nikolay_K 14-07-2015 16:02

and back to the original question.

1) chem. composition of steel

vovchiklj 14-07-2015 16:27

Nikolay_K, They wrote everything correctly, only one-sided. Everything that you have written above can be simplified, a sharp edge can be obtained only on high-quality steel. But grandfather's braids still work in skillful hands (this is also a special case).
Can it be more correct to write that "you can get the thinnest and sharpest edge possible" after choosing the correct sharpening method?

oldTor 14-07-2015 17:47

And on grandfather's braids, is it really bad steel? I'm very pleased with my great-grandfather's braid!

vovchiklj 14-07-2015 22:41

oldTor, this is just a special case.
In general, I wanted to draw attention to something else.
I have been following the sharpening topic for 1.5 years, and often people forget what and why they sharpen. Either they saw the rope, then they look for magic stones, or even believe in the "sword of kladenets", which cuts everything and everyone, and day by day it only becomes sharper))
I am far from an expert, but I would solve the problem differently:
1) first decide what to cut and under what conditions
2) choose a piece of iron for the first item (at a price, quality and expediency). Or maybe not a piece of iron
3) and then, depending on the selected material, choose a sharpening method in order to get that very sharp edge.
Sorry to get into a conversation)))

MS03677896313 14-07-2015 23:12

quote: Originally posted by Nikolay_K:

Now let's take a close look at the name of the topic.
and back to the original question.

Summarizing, we can say that the ability to obtain the thinnest and sharpest edge possible is realized when several factors are combined:

1) chem. composition of steel
(harmful impurities such as sulfur and phosphorus should be as little as possible - this is a very important and fundamental point)

2) steel production technology (powder technologies can make it possible to obtain a finer and more uniformly distributed carbide phase)

4) the absence in the production process of the product of harmful influences that can affect the technological memory of steel

5) high-quality sharpening on good abrasives

And each of these factors is important.

Yes, I think you're right ... there are several important factors. Thank you so much everyone for the clarification ... especially Nikolay_K and OldTor

MS03677896313 15-07-2015 22:29

I still have one more question ... but what about powdered steels with a burr ... especially about M390 ... is it there at all or not?

oldTor 15-07-2015 23:42

Burr formation may not be noticeable when working with certain abrasives and with certain working techniques.
All this may prevent it from growing to any noticeable size, even in magnification. and of course it depends on the steel. the same steel in different processing may be more or less prone to pulling out a burr, it may have a different character. For me, it is usually an indicator of good uniformity of steel and its successful processing - either when there is no need to think about the burr at all, it does not have time to grow, or when the burr goes in a thin thread, and comes off by itself, does not pull the edge fragments along with it. something like this.

Nikolay_K 16-07-2015 15:48

quote: Originally posted by MS03677896313:

I still have one more question ... but how on powder steels with burrs

Absolutely the same.

There is a burr and is not particularly different from others.

quote: Originally posted by MS03677896313:

... especially about the M390 ... is it there at all or not?

And in this regard, the M390 is also no different.
She has a sufficient reserve of plasticity.
At least for the case when we take the Benchmade M390, for example the BM581 Barrage.

Burr can hardly form only on very brittle steels that are not prone to plastic deformation.
Those. the plastic limit for which is very close to the brittle fracture limit.
As a result, such steel is chipped off more (like ceramics on ceramic knives) than bent. But I have never met such steel in reality ...

Ridge 18-07-2015 14:10

quote: there should be as little harmful impurities as sulfur and phosphorus --- this is a very important and fundamental point

Nikolay_K 18-07-2015 22:58

And how sulfur and phosphorus affect the final "sharpness" of knives.

quote:

Unwanted elements:

Phosphorous (P):

Even the smallest proportion of this element makes steel brittle due to segregation at the grain boundaries.

Sulfur (S):

Like phosphorous, this element leads to significant segregation; the formation of iron sulphide causes dreaded red brittleness in hardenable steel.

Both sulfur and phosphorous have a high affinity for iron and are difficult to remove from the bath. On the other hand, even the lowest proportions are very harmful. Purity of well below 0.03% (S + P) is an essential characteristic of high-quality cutting steel, although this often does not receive sufficient attention!

grinderman 18-07-2015 23:13

And how sulfur and phosphorus affect the final "sharpness" of knives.

Nikolay_K 19-07-2015 12:52

quote: Originally posted by grinderman:

It turns out that the less of these, the better for the blade (RK).

even 0.2% sulfur is already a big disaster for the edge

Ridge 19-07-2015 01:04

So it is so, but no need to exaggerate. Most of the steels fit into the chemical run. the composition of the content of sulfur and phosphorus, which is easy in the link.
Sulfur, combining with iron, forms iron sulfide FeS, which is a harmful impurity in the metal. During the crystallization period, iron sulfide forms the FeS-Fe eutectic, which has a lower melting point than steel (940 ° C) and low solubility in liquid steel. This is the reason for the formation of hot cracks, since the eutectic during crystallization is located between the grains of the steel. Phosphorus also has a harmful effect, reducing the toughness of the metal at low temperatures.
Therefore, the content is from 0.010 to 0.050, a special effect on the fur. the strength of the RK is not affected. Silicon and manganese, in some cases, are also unnecessary impurities. silicon is a deoxidizing agent in production and its content in the metal is inevitable, and manganese, in some cases, is introduced into the melt just to remove phosphorus (melting under white slag)

oldTor 19-07-2015 01:46

quote: Originally written by Ridge:
So it is so, but no need to exaggerate.

If the topic is about "maximum severity", then there is no exaggeration in this, kmk.
The higher the task is, the fewer trifles that can be neglected. If they exist at all.

Ridge 19-07-2015 12:13

quote: even 0.2% sulfur is already a big disaster for the edge

And if you answer a clearly posed question: "What determines the maximum sharpness of the knife?" the answer is approximately the same, on the minimum radius on the RK that can be obtained for a particular steel grade, and this depends on the structure and grain size.
And the resistance of the RK, among other things, will depend, among other things, on the purity of the alloy by microinclusions of harmful impurities, the resistance of the RK, and not the initial sharpness.

Nikolay_K 19-07-2015 13:31

quote: Originally posted by Ridge:

Nikolay, apparently you described yourself, it is in automatic steels that the content of sulfur (up to 0.15 - 0.3%) and phosphorus (up to 0.05 - 0.15%). Sulfur in free-cutting steel is in the form of FeS and MnS

If you like an edge that, under the slightest load, begins to crumble like dust from rotten wood, then you can, of course, use knives made of automatic or simply sulfur-dirty steel with 0.2% or more.

And the thinner the edge, the more pronounced this effect.
The more the steel crumbles.

Or do you think that the Japanese are such fools to chase Swedish steel and set such strict standards for sulfur and phosphorus for knife steels?

for the "golden line" (Aogami, Shirogami), Hitachi's norms are as follows:

phosphorus not more than 0.025%
sulfur not more than 0.004% (four thousandths, Karl!)

for the more modest Gingami line, the norms are different:

phosphorus not more than 0.03%
sulfur not more than 0.02%

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